This PAEDS Small Talk mini series is a little different to our regular programming. Instead of chatting with parents and children, in light of International nurses Day on the 12th of May - we are going to speak with 5 incredible paediatric nurses who will share their journey into becoming children’s nurses and the diverse roles that they have now. We discuss the amazing highs and the very real lows of nursing along with some nurses humour along the way (blanket trigger warning for all the body fluids here!).
This episode we talk with Isabelle about her journey from a Science degree to paediatric ICU and then all the way to leadership where she applies a 'human centred' philosophy.
This PAEDS Small Talk mini series is a little different to our regular programming. Instead of chatting with parents and children, in light of International nurses Day on the 12th of May - we are going to speak with 5 incredible paediatric nurses who will share their journey into becoming children’s nurses and the diverse roles that they have now. We discuss the amazing highs and the very real lows of nursing along with some nurses humour along the way (blanket trigger warning for all the body fluids here!).
This episode we talk with Isabelle about her journey from a Science degree to paediatric ICU and then all the way to leadership where she applies a 'human centred' philosophy.
We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land and pay respects to Elders past, present, and emerging. We recognize their connection to country and their role in caring for and maintaining country over thousands of years. This PEDS Small Talk mini series is a little different to our regular programming.
Instead of chatting with parents and children, in light of International Nurses Day on the 12th of May, we're going to speak with five incredible paediatric nurses who will share their journey into becoming children's nurses, and the diverse roles that they all have now. We discuss the amazing highs and the very real lows of nursing, along with some nurses humour along the way.
So blanket warning for all the body fluids here. These are the stories of five women who consider it a privilege and an honour to have made a profession out of nursing. And we hope you enjoy the special mini series edition of Peed's Small Talk.
so, we are trying to highlight the importance of nurses by talking to a few amazing nurses in the lead up to International Nurses Day, and really talk about how strategic investment in nursing can bring about some considerable economic and societal benefits because there's so many different aspects to nursing.
So we're really hoping to highlight them with this podcast.. So Sarah, before we kick off and chat to Isabel about her role in nursing and where she is at now, , I just wanted to quickly ask you about what are some of the different roles that you've done in nurse?
Cause what have you been nursing for 18, 19. Should I not say that? How many years for a few years?
I think this is my 17th year of nursing. So yeah, you just, yeah. Exaggerated just a little, little bit.
I'm adding on
years. Oh no,
it's the bags under my eyes. That's all the shift work. That's making it seem like I've been here longer than I have. . So look, I was thinking Reflecting on the theme of this year's International Nurses Day, it's a little bit like broad, isn't it? It's massive, but I think in there, , you know, thinking about all the different things that we have done in nursing and we've been lucky enough to work together in a number of those roles and with our guests today, which is really such a privilege.
But, uh, look, I'll start. So I started, , in the ICU and I did my postgraduate in pediatric critical care. , and then I really focused on clinical excellence. So doing a lot of further learning and study around, you know, filtration and ECMO nursing. , I did retrieval nursing for a long time and I really, enjoyed that as well as the long shifts that come with that and the unpredictability, which is really difficult to do now that I've got kids, but yeah, really enjoy that part of my career.
And then, I had such a passion for teaching. So I moved into education pretty quickly. And you know, had lots of roles in that. And then after having, I can't even remember which baby it was now. Maybe number one, two, number one. I think, you and I were pinned to do a clinical nurse consultant role together.
So. So we really worked around quality and safety and improving outcomes for kids in the ICU. And it was there that we really found a passion for working with one another and realized that we, you know, could do this sort of role in, you know, a different aspect. And that's where we've taken PEDS, , to another level.
The hospital environment. So taking that real quality and safety out into the community and to healthcare professionals working in regional and rural areas. So whilst I still work, in the ICU, doing clinical work, , I can now sort of take that passion for teaching outside the hospital. So yeah, that's where I'm at at the moment.
How about you Grace, tell me about your journey, which is a little bit similar to mine.
Yeah, we've had pretty parallel journeys, haven't we? So obviously different pathways into the ICU. I think I might've started there maybe a year or two. So did my post grad maybe a couple of years before. So it was sort of on that professional development journey a couple of years ahead.
Look, I reflect back and. Isabel, who we're going to be chatting to a bit later, similar sort of pathways as well, like we worked with her in education and in the clinical nurse consultant role, so that's obviously the place to be, but, like very slapdash for me, like I remember one day after my post grad.
Like one of the nursing educators coming up to me and going, Hey, Grace, would you like to go to Vietnam and teach the nurses how to do pain assessment tools? And I was like, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. And that was literally my entry into education and really loved it though. Like really, really loved it.
And you know that I have like a passion on, , helping people professionally develop. Like, I just love it when people come to me and they're like, I want to get to this point. And I think, Oh, I just love helping people get to it. And like finding that sense of themselves in the process and knowing that they're capable of those things.
I really love watching people develop through that process. And I think, what we do now in our, business and what we do now in the community, we see that in parents and carers and in seeing them having that level of empowerment with their own children. Like I still get a lot of pleasure out of it.
But yeah, really similar to you, like education, leadership, and also that ability to look at problems or things that are not working very well and are creating issues within whatever that space is. So whether that's in the ICU or whether that's in the community. And thinking outside of the box on how do we solve those, like, what are the causing factors and really being able to break down and solve those problems.
Like, I've really enjoyed that. And it's not what you would typically think that a nurse is doing. You know, so much of our career is, , bedside and we love it. Like we love working with the children and their families and all the machines and their physiological components of their illness and the disease.
We definitely love that. But. You know, also being able to problem solve and make the environment safer and make people professionally develop and just operate at a higher level. It's just an unseen part of nursing, which is, has been a really great role that I've been able to perform. And with you, like, I think that was a great manager who thought let's put Grace and Sarah together.
, because, you know, we can't escape each other now, can we?
Duck with me. I think that's a perfect segue into introducing our guests today because, you know, we've had the absolute honor of working with Isabelle and she is an absolute gun. And before we, , came onto the podcast, we were just discussing how driven Isabelle is.
, Isabel is someone who's incredibly skilled in building rapport and enhancing team dynamics. She specializes in real human centered solutions around learning and leadership. She has a background in retail, which I did not know, , patient care and team leadership.
And she really leverages human potential to try and foster excellence and innovation within the workplace. She has a leadership philosophy that centers on kindness and respect, which I wholeheartedly agree with. And she is really passionate about supporting and developing leaders. So, you know, that's an incredibly interesting bio, but Isabel, can you start us off and just tell us before we sort of delve into that side of it?
What your career, what your journey path into nursing was initially?
Yeah, I'd loved hearing about both of your backgrounds. Like, I think, yes, we both, we all have worked together at some stage and, you know, our paths cross, but our entry point and then where we've kind of diverged and done such different things is so fascinating to me and really does like, , like underscore that point, Grace, that you said nursing can take you anywhere and you can do so many different things, , depending on what you are passionate about.
Yeah. And so I actually came, I did a science degree before I did nursing, so I did a bachelor of science. I was really, . Super fascinated and interested by the human body always had been since I was a little girl, little person. And so it was just destined to like, just wanted to know more about anatomy.
And then I finished, you know, this three year degree at Melbourne uni and was like, well, what do I do now with this? Like, you know, major in anatomy and physiology and was attracted to nursing because it gave me the opportunity to really mix and blend that, , passion for anatomy, that physiology, you know, as you said, grace before that intersection between physiology and machines and all of that stuff.
, we've the arts really with the humanities. Like I think, you know, nursing is such a blend of Science and art, uh, you know, being able to, you know, care for a human, , be able to deliver that, , so many different levels of psychology, social work. And I think it blends those two together and it's quite social.
And so I think I'm quite an extroverted person. I love, , talking and spending time with people. The other option was working in a lab. So that was never really going to work for me. So I did nursing and I actually did a course that Melbourne Uni was offering at the time, which was really blend. It was like the old school two days at uni, three days at hospital.
And you had to choose, your hospital that you're going to be at for two years , in the upfront. So I chose Royal Children's. So I actually started in the old like Royal Children's Hospital for three days a week, straight after my science degree. So kind of got really hands on practical, , it was almost like an apprenticeship basically.
And then very quickly, you know, after I graduated, bounced straight into the ICU and then never left. And I think that's a lot of, again, that's where all of our stories start to start to become one.
So did the bedside things for a long time, did my post grad as, as we all did, and then moved into education as we all did. I feel like we've, there's like a rite of passage as I actually thought that I was committed to this clinical education background. I start or, you know, pathway started a master's in clinical education.
And as part of that did a leadership subject. So, and once I did that leadership subject, I could not, it's like the blinkers had come off, it was an epiphany, like such a, as Oprah would call it, like aha moment. And I, again, fascinated to hear, because you both have gone. Into that real like quality and safety and, you know, really kind of hammered that education.
And my brain just went to workforce, culture, leadership, like how do we employee experience and the intersection between employee experience and the patient experience, which I know now everyone's talking about it, but. 15 years ago, like no one was talking about the employee experience, like, correct me if I'm wrong, ladies, but that is just, was not a thing.
, Yeah, just became kind of obsessed with that and wanted to then completely dumped my clinical education masters and went straight into a masters of leadership and management because I was like, this is where it's at.
So then. became hell bent on trying to become a nurse manager of some description. So, went down the A& M pathway and then was fortunate enough at the Monash Children's. I left, reluctantly left the Royal Children's, went to Monash where I, you know, um, Was very lucky to be able to manage the intensive care there for a couple of years.
And I was able to do those things that, you know, I learned about in theory, uh, in my master's of nursing leadership and management and put them into practice. And again, see how that connection and that, um, You know, how, when you enhance the employee experience, when you put the person, the employee at the center, you know, when you bring human centered design in and work with people, uh, and not, you know, that kind of really top down and tell people what they need to do and really kind of involve people in, in those decision making and things that affect them, uh, that, that has a real impact.
And so. Did that for a little while, , that during COVID, which was amazing. Not, um, then decided I wanted to step up into, cause that was quite local. And I think everything that we'd done or I'd done at that point had been at a very local level. And I wanted to see if you could. Do that kind of at an organizational level.
Job became available at the Royal Melbourne Hospital, in leadership and culture. And just was able to, again, given such, like, I've been very lucky in that I've been given opportunities where I can create and develop and use all of the stuff that, you It was meant to be for everyone, but it was very much for nurses because we are the biggest workforce in any healthcare organization.
But then as I normally do got itchy feet., and was thinking, okay, so I've done local.
I've done organizational. How can I, you know, let's go one better. And how can I learn? I had at that point only worked in healthcare. I'd only ever worked in hospitals apart from my stint in retail when I was studying at the Telstra shop. Which is still like customer service. It's all customer service, but I, yeah, just was like, I need to learn.
I need, I need to be challenged. I want to know more. I want to learn more. I want to apply. I want, yeah, I want to apply this differently. I want to be able to combine it all. So that's when I left to come to Deloitte like 18 months ago. Where I am working in the health advisor and transformation team.
So still working in healthcare, but in a really different way.
Yeah, that's so incredible, Isabel. Wow. I
clearly
haven't kept up with where you've been. I think you're right. We follow each other on LinkedIn, but I think you lose sort of connectedness in a very big way.
And I think that, I mean, you've basically answered my next question. Question anyway, but I just wanted to make note of how pivotal you are for this year's theme. You are like the epitome of, I think, what this year's International Nurses Day entails. You are part of the, you know, economic sustainability of nursing.
And I think, you know, sitting here, listening to you talk about. What it was like 15 years ago when I entered nursing, it was very much about you just suck it up and you just work and work and work. It doesn't really matter about you or how you feel when you're in that workplace. Um, you know, you get, you get into that zone.
And I remember saying, Someone's saying to me, you put on your game face and you come in and you give everything to your workplace. And then when you leave, you can fall apart, but that's okay. You pick yourself up and you'll be all right. And so I think obviously we work in an environment where you have to be patient centered and family centered.
And so we have, we do give our absolute all, but if we don't look after the people and we don't have human connections for the people who are doing those roles, we will not have a sustainable workforce. So you are absolutely pivotal for that. And the roles that you've played
and I think also the general like the people entering the workforce now they won't have that like it will it's and it started to change even when I was there and I know we're going off topic a little bit but remember when you would stay back and watch that, you know, you would, because it was interesting, you would stay back to watch it, even though your shift had finished or something interesting happened or whatever.
I remember, you know, not that long ago, well, a while ago now, people would be like, nah, I'm cool, see ya, like there's an opportunity to see this really amazing thing
they're like, nah, I'm, I want to go home, and so I started to see that shift in mindset and it's different. And so if we don't come to the party, and embrace that new way of, of work life balance and the way people think that, that shift in generational attitude and approach to work, then we will just, we'll continue to burn through our workforce, basically.
Oh,
100%. Yeah, like I was going to say burnout, it's a segue obviously into that massive topic. And obviously that's probably beyond what we can discuss in, , this podcast, but it's huge. The, , that burnout in our workforce, like for nurses, but obviously for lots of health professionals that, particularly work in really high acuity areas as well.
Like, some of those reasons of what you guys have already outlined, like expectations on. new nurses, like what we expect them to do to be able to get up to clinical competence, but also, just the exposure to really high acute stressful events and how we manage that within ourselves before the next shift.
Like I remember too, Sarah, like that sort of culture of suck it up. And sink or swim like, I know that that got bandied around a lot too. , people would be like, well, it's sink or swim, but that's literally your two options. You either swim or you sink. There was no other option.
, yeah, that, that culture is changing. I agree, Isabel. I can see that when I go back and do shifts now that it doesn't feel like it's sinkers sink or swim as much as what it was, you know, 20 odd years ago. So just sort of moving on a little bit more now. Beyond what you're currently doing.
We're just really curious to know what you love about being a nurse.
Yeah. What a great question, because I think. It's such a calling, isn't it?
It's not. And even though I'm not technically working in a nursing role, I still like say I'm a nurse. My partner's like, when are you going to stop with the, and I'm like, I don't think I can. And I don't like, this is a little known fact. My middle name is actually Marie Florence. And I'm like, maybe there's something in that.
Like I was just, it was just, I love that. I think become the. impact. Like you can't really get much more, you know, much more impact, meaning, purpose. Then you can with nursing. But it's badass. Like the stuff that we do and, again, it kind of isn't in contrast and a bit of a hypocrisy compared to, you know, saying that we'd look after yourself and whatever, but the stuff that you, the things that you get to do, it's a privilege, a, to be able to look after humans, to be let in to people's lives at their most vulnerable time, it's such an intimate.
Experience that no other profession really gets like you just no one gets, there's nothing that can compare to that. And I used to, say, like, I would often be the only person at a dinner table that loved their job that, was still really deeply passionate. There's never a dull moment.
Every day is different. There's variability. You can't, again, we talked about, you can do lots of different things within the one, you know, within the one kind of role. I think that is, that being the sense of, it's almost instant gratification.
Like, Which again, you just don't get in, in other roles, even different nursing roles, to be honest, like when you're providing direct patient care, you see the fruits of your labor literally immediately, you know, like sometimes the better, sometimes for the worst, but to be able to see the difference that you can make, sometimes almost immediately, you know, whether it's the end of a shift, sometimes straight away is pretty, is pretty powerful.
And despite, you know, all of the roles that I've done that we've talked about, nothing gives you, nothing has, nothing can replicate that. Like, and I've done a fair few roles as we've talked about and yeah, nothing can, give you that back.
Ah, that's so true. Isn't it? I think this is why I'm so impatient when I try and do something at home.
Like when I try and make something because I can't get that instant gratification. I'm really, really impatient. Maybe that comes from nursing, maybe that's why I do love nursing, but I think you're really right, when you've found your sweet spot, and you know that deep passion and that deep gratification for what you're doing.
Alright, we've talked about what you love. There's always going to be the question on the flip side. What do you not like about nursing?
This is the, this is like the thing that really gets my guy and it really started to, show as a nurse manager, as we know, like in an ICU, there's a medical director, there's a nurse manager.
I love that. They call it a nurse unit manager. And the reason, and I'll tell you, this is like the moment that it really hit home for me when I got that role. And , I was relieving an amazing nurse manager who was going on maternity leave. And I hadn't been given all of my access yet. And, you know, she had left.
So she handed over one day, bang, then the next day I'm it. And there was no, handhelds and I couldn't order any cause my, my like access for that system hadn't gone through yet. And everyone's we've got a handheld, we've got no handhelds. And I'm like, why is that? Hang on. Why is that my problem as the nurse manager that the handheld, the toilet paper.
The tea, the coffee, all of that, the stationary is your problem. It's not, you know, but yet the medical director gets to work on the medical stuff and all the really like cool and sexy stuff. And they're often the, they're the ones in the picture at the front, you know, of all of the branding and. That I think culturally in healthcare, where, and I think again, it's tied to the fact that we're a predominantly female workforce and females do that stuff, , they do the cleaning, they do that, you know, and I was even at my, , my director in this role.
If there was a spot on the floor, I would have to make sure that the, you know, that that was cleaned. And, and so I think that part of nursing where you are expected to have all of these qualifications and be super decorated in terms of, you know, qualifications, but yet you're still expected to order the toilet paper and you're still expected to, you know, make sure that the drains are cleaned and.
, all the audits are done. And I think that the really low, you're expected to go high and expected to go very, very low. And I, um, That's that contrast just did not sit well with me.
It's so interesting. Isn't it the hand towels? I'm not going to forget that now. So this is why I don't want to become a manager.
In nursing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. And I think there is still a lot of stereotypes in nursing that exist. And I think there's that depiction of what a nurse is. Um, and you're right. There is so much knowledge, so much expertise, so many years of experience. experience that I think in some places and in some instances is really valued and really seen.
Um, but in a lot of other ways, and Grace and I do work out in different healthcare centers around regional and rural Victoria, and we see the disparity amongst them. And it's quite interesting what you're talking about, um, not just from a manager perspective, but from a bedside clinical perspective as well.
And I think like I've sat in various roles, sat in committee meetings, steer co's, you know, quality meetings and a new task would, a job would come up and activity would come up and someone would always say the nurses will do it, get the nurses to do it. And I think that that's where that burnout potentially is coming from is that you're constantly adding to the list tasks, not necessarily at the higher order level often, and not.
Taking anything away. And there is just this expectations that the nurses will do it.
I was just going to say, because it's not necessarily about the fact that you've got to like order the toilet paper or the hand towels is that that's actually taking you away from managerial tasks, which are quite important to, you know, staff management, bed management, you know, and delegations of roles appropriate to where, what your skill level is, is really, I suppose the, the crux here of that issue, isn't it?
Like, that's just. Yeah. That's not that you can't do it, or maybe it's not even that you're not willing to do it. It's just that if you're doing that, then what are you therefore not doing as
a
trade off?
And that's it. And maybe like not to miss into like, I'm more than. Like, we need hand towels, like, at the end of the day, we need hand towels, we need toilet paper, we need all of those things, and all of those things are important for the functioning of a unit and the functioning of a hospital, but is my time best spent, like, actually having a conversation with you, Grace, because something's going on for you at home, or, or, and, you know, and why have you hired me, and, you know, in, with all of these things that I've done, is that the best use of my, use of my experience and time?
You can't create transformational change when you're ordering. Assets for the use. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
All
Oh, this is just the last one really, which is whether you have , any stories in particular, anything funny or interesting, from your years in nursing that you'd like to share
There's so, oh my god, there's so many. There's so many like inappropriate ones. I was like, I don't know.
.
So many. There's like, I remember looking after a patient who was doing a sleep study, he had like a syndrome and he was, um, track evented, but only overnight.
And I said, I'll come in there and keep you company because the room had to be dark. Cause you know, the sleep study, but someone still had to be in there cause it was vented. And I said, I'll come in there and keep you company. And I went in there and like, just fell asleep. So I didn't even keep him company.
That sounds like what I'm like now. And I'm like, I'll come and watch a movie with you, Steven. That's typically
what happens at night. I know, with Steve Aoki's Let's Watch A Movie, I'm like, I always like, I do like a whiplash to what time it is, because I can only start a movie before 8pm. Like, that is the ultimate cutoff time.
Oh, that's so funny. Anyway. Oh, there are so many out there.
There
are so many. There are so many. But again, that's the gratitude, and people don't have these stories. Like, no one's had I feel sorry for people who didn't start their career in nursing, like the grads that come through Deloitte, like what a shit experience.
Like we have had the best, like think about like how fun it was. And the people,
the people that we have like interacted with and shared some pretty vulnerable moments and throughout our entire careers. And
I think for the three of us also, that period of life where you're pregnant. You're meeting your partner.
You have your babies during that time. Like it's very much transformative. Like it's formative. ?
Well, thanks so much, Isabel. I think, you know, there are no words to describe how lucky we are to have worked with you and even to have had a chat with you today.
And I think that you really epitomize how vast nursing can, you know, take you, how many different areas nursing can take you. It is certainly not just nursing at the bedside. And I think that you are someone that, Found a problem and you work to find a solution. And I think that really encapsulates what nurses do.
We are really innovative and where we do see a problem, we want to be able to fix it. And you've done that in a really, really incredible way. And I think that your career path just goes to show What you can achieve when you are driven to do that. And you mentioned, um, there that you are lucky that you've had the opportunities to be creative and to do this and to do that.
But I think it's actually more than that. It's not people giving you that opportunity. It's you actually finding it. And I think that that's a really beautiful thing and a great message for everyone out there. You can actually find solutions. You can find your own career path and your own way to get where you want to go.
So thank you so much for joining us. What an absolute honor to have you on the body. Sarah.
Thanks, Grace.
Well, everyone, that's it for today. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Pete's Small Talk. If you love this episode, we'd be so grateful if you left a review, subscribe to our podcast, and follow us on social media, where you are guaranteed to find life saving tips and tricks for keeping your little ones safe.
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